This weekend, Jelly Roll appeared on the Pat McAfee Show and shared some surprising details about his behind-the-scenes battle on the charts for No. 1 album.

When Charli XCX released her excellent album Brat earlier this year, she landed at a new career peak. She’s getting critical raves and filling arenas and racking up Grammy nominations, but she’s not necessarily one of the most popular pop stars on the scene right now.